The discussion mainly focussed on the affiliation process and implications. The following were noted…
affiliation sessions only once a year in January. next one is Jan 08
no forms, but to submit club documents: constitution; list of committee members & motorsports experience; certification from National Sports Commissioner; any other relevant document such as event description etc
2 years probation before full affiliation (from the january process); the events will need to be conducted with officials from a senior club already affiliated to AAM; AAM stewards will also be present; “graduation” subject to AAM stewards’ report during the probationary period
annual affiliation fee of RM500
club officials to be licensed as event officials
Further to the above, Further to the above, discussions on benefits, implications of affiliation.
Benefits: Kelab my-KART Selangor (KMS) will be able to organise national and international events. members are eligible to apply for AAM racing license through KMS.
Then we talked about event sanctioning.
AAM is currently aware of my-KART’s activities. As long as there is no prize money etc, then there is no problem with my-KART continuing to organise unsanctioned events. So we can still run as we do (luen pls correct my understanding). This is true even with AAM affiliation.
However, Nathan cautioned of the safety implications – which exposes the event organisers to public liability. Currently only RHB Assurance provides racing insurance. The premiums are based on AAM inspection / sanction. Currently, the 3rd party liability insurance per event is ~ RM1000+
Also every licensed driver will need to pay (i) RM25 pa for the comptetition license, and (ii) RM200 per event for personal insurance. Claims will not be valid unless the event is AAM sanctioned.
Sanctioned events also enables driver racing records be recognized for future reference in other category racing.
This is pretty much the main gist of the discussions. Luen, pls add any other points i missed out.
Folks – pls give feedback and any other queries.
btw, luen and i were given a copy of the AAM national competition rule book.
AAM also specifically AAM also specifically emphasize on safety of every event. Tracks of sanctioned events will be examinated conforming to CIK/AAM every year.
Confirm that MY-kart may run unsanctioned events every month if no prizes and or money to be given away.
AAM has the right to revoke racing license of individual if he/she violated or involve participation of illegal event.
———————————-
neat, balance and practical
luen wrote:
Confirm that [quote=luen]
Confirm that MY-kart may run unsanctioned events every month if no prizes and or money to be given away.
AAM has the right to revoke racing license of individual if he/she violated or involve participation of illegal event.
[/quote]
Question: Will it be a violation of AAM rules when a licenced driver participated in the current my-kart monthly races?
..someone mentioned to me ..someone mentioned to me that AAM will revoke their racing license if they join unsanctioned events, but not too sure lah
naza wrote:Question: Will [quote=naza]Question: Will it be a violation of AAM rules when a licenced driver participated in the current my-kart monthly races?[/quote]
strictly yes, but according to nathan, they close one eye when it is a closed club event – no money.
As long as youre still in As long as youre still in bolehland, they’ll close one eye for you.
__________________________________________________________________________
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/sabelt/hpclogo-1.gif[/img]
[URL=http://hpcevents.com/]hpcevents.com[/URL]
TheFazz wrote:However, [quote=TheFazz]
However, Nathan cautioned of the safety implications – which exposes the event organisers to public liability. Currently only RHB Assurance provides racing insurance. The premiums are based on AAM inspection / sanction. Currently, the 3rd party liability insurance per event is ~ RM1000+
Also every licensed driver will need to pay (i) RM25 pa for the comptetition license, and (ii) RM200 per event for personal insurance. Claims will not be valid unless the event is AAM sanctioned.
[/quote]
I would like to summarise the cost implications, from the treasurer point of view, to ensure I understand correctly:
i) AAM Affiliation:
– RM500/year
– 2 years “probation” – during this time,. need to have senior AAM certified marshalls – is there a cost to this, and is it mandatory for all events?? Also, I understand from Luen, that they will also appraise and certify my-KART officials
– Once affiliated, we can run sanctioned or unsanctioned events.
ii) Unsanctioned event:
– Can be run as we do now.
– Anyone can join
– However, AAM licensed drivers strictly not allowed, but “close one eye” if no prize money is awarded. (Malaysia Boleh!!).
– No extra costs for AAM
– Risk -> drivers uninsured during these events…
ii) Sanctioned events:
– Only licensed drivers allowed
– Licensed drivers have to fork out RM25 (per annum) + RM 200 per event (ouch!)
– my-KART forks our RM1000 per event
– AAM marshalls -> do we need externals (at extra cost?)
So, after affiliation, we run the my-KART events “as-is”, and start to organise a limited number of sanctioned competitions, eg K1+ could be a national sanctioned event?
However, I’m still confused about the “probation period”….pls clarify.
saa73
azlan – you are correct azlan – you are correct about the summary.
as for the probationary period, this is 2 years from the point the affiliation is first made (ie Jan 08). during this time, we can still organise sanctioned events, but the cost will have to factor in the allowances for the “senior club officials” who attend and guide our people. hope this clarifies.
can we also organise can we also organise unsanctioned events without club officials during the probationary period, like what we do now?
saa73 wrote:can we also [quote=saa73]can we also organise unsanctioned events without club officials during the probationary period, like what we do now?[/quote]
yes.
ii) Sanctioned events: [quote]
ii) Sanctioned events:
– Only licensed drivers allowed
– Licensed drivers have to fork out RM25 (per annum) + RM 200 per event (ouch!)
– my-KART forks our RM1000 per event
– AAM marshalls -> do we need externals (at extra cost?)
[/quote]
Great work.
My comments for the sanctioned events are :
– all the money including driver fees GOES TO AAM….you have yet to add the money needed to rent ur machines
– what does the RM1000 cover? Track inspection fees and an “appearance fee” for a AAM steward?
– sure you will pay more/extra if u engage AAM marshalls who typically comes from KKS, AMC so my advise is better u deal directly with them….cheaper surely.
I advise u all to go UNSANCTIONED cos the the cost will all come back to the drivers and it will be too expensive to participate cos we are surely not getting better machines but paying for the “administrative” fee of some regulatory body…Also, get AAM to agree IN WRITING on terms what this UNSANCTIONED covers so we are safe…..if possible.
jules et al… first, let’s jules et al… first, let’s get this clear: there is no rule that states that motorsports events must be sanctioned by aam.
the need to sanction such the need to sanction such events comes from the need to protect the event organisers (eg my-kart), the sponsors and other parties involved from liability in the event of an incident. this protection comes in the form of event insurance, driver insurance etc.
given the relative infancy of motorsports insurance in the country, not many institutions want to insure motorsports events (lack of understanding, or lack of professionalism in the motorsports industry).
right now, according to aam, only rhb does so. but rhb will only provide insurance coverage if somebody tells them that all necessary precautions are in place to reduce the level of risk. and that person is aam.
hence, you can therefore hence, you can therefore conclude that in order for sponsors to come in, and for event organisers (such as my-kart) to protect themselves from liability, we should get the event sanctioned… particularly where there is sponsorship (loosely equated to money).
imagine this scenario – we organise an event, get some big time sponsor to provide money, benefits in kind etc… the event is open to all people from everywhere – by this i mean the folks that say “i pay you money and i want to get some fun out of it”… type of people. how they behave on track, we have absolutely no control whatsoever. Should an unfortunate incident occur… who is exposed? correct: the sponsors, the event organisers etc. so by running an unsanctioned / uninsured event we are taking a colossal risk of liability.
so the simplified view that aam does not force events to be sanctioned where no money is involved – still holds true. but the rationale of doing so is as i have explained above.
so, to answer jules’ so, to answer jules’ statement that we should have events unsanctioned… yes agree. we can do this.
however, the moment we want to get sponsors, we should (we want) to get our events sanctioned. part of the sponsor revenue should be allocated to the costs of sanctioning the event.
thanks for clearing the thanks for clearing the air….
yes, agree fully sanctioned will be when we have sponsors which is eventually where we want to be.
suggest u ask from Nathan how much it cost in FULL ( marshalls n all, track inspection fees, AAM stewards appearance, insurance etc )to run a sanction event. this will give u an idea how much to ask for, from sponsors. my estimate…RM20000 upwards for one day event.
Hopefully the fees we charge the drivers can cover the machine hire and the sponsors will take care of the AAM needs plus some cut for our club too….
Jules wrote:my [quote=Jules]my estimate…RM20000 upwards for one day event.
Hopefully the fees we charge the drivers can cover the machine hire and the sponsors will take care of the AAM needs plus some cut for our club too….[/quote]
that is the idea. drivers pay for the machine hire etc. the sponsors for the rest. this should ensure sustainability of the series in case sponsors pull out… then we run unsponsored / unsanctioned events at the same charges to the drivers.
as for the RM20k – how do you derive this? agree to further check with nathan. but will need your help as well given your experience and technical insight.
20K? been around to hear 20K? been around to hear such numbers floating for each race…..CK were organising races before u recall?
Check their latest website. They welcomed new motorsport club to join them. http://www.mam.org.my[/quote%5D my-KART was represented by Fazz, Yus & Azlan at the MAM launch last Weds. We were even presented with a plaque by the Minister to Fazz on stage. However, this was based on the submission of application form – we have not paid up the fees yet. Some of us are meeting MAM officials to clarify the terms & conditions of affiliation today, to understand the implications on our activities. We’ll post the outcome of the meeting later.
saa73 wrote:sabelt [quote=saa73][quote=sabelt]forget AAM lets look forward on MAM.
Check their latest website. They welcomed new motorsport club to join them. http://www.mam.org.my[/quote%5D my-KART was represented by Fazz, Yus & Azlan at the MAM launch last Weds. We were even presented with a plaque by the Minister to Fazz on stage. However, this was based on the submission of application form – we have not paid up the fees yet. Some of us are meeting MAM officials to clarify the terms & conditions of affiliation today, to understand the implications on our activities. We’ll post the outcome of the meeting later.
[/quote]
cool. let us know the outcome… :beer: :up:
__________________________________________________________________________
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Asia’s leading motorsport network
Jules wrote:thanks for [quote=Jules]thanks for clearing the air….
yes, agree fully sanctioned will be when we have sponsors which is eventually where we want to be.
suggest u ask from Nathan how much it cost in FULL ( marshalls n all, track inspection fees, AAM stewards appearance, insurance etc )to run a sanction event. this will give u an idea how much to ask for, from sponsors. my estimate…RM20000 upwards for one day event.
Hopefully the fees we charge the drivers can cover the machine hire and the sponsors will take care of the AAM needs plus some cut for our club too….
[/quote]
IMHO sponsorship of RM20,000 per race is not realistic. If you can get that kind of money, might as well use it to buy karts instead of paying AAM!
Let’s see how MAM approaches sanctioning fees……
its all stated in their its all stated in their website…:)
Fazz
i would like to join
Fazz
i would like to join this mtg if its ok.
Alvin, please join the
Alvin, please join the meeting, we need your valueable input.
———————————-
neat, balance and practical
confirming attendants
1.
confirming attendants
1. Fazz
2. Luen
3. Alvin
4. Euss?
confirming attendants
1.
confirming attendants
1. Fazz
2. Luen
3. Euss?
4.
alvin cannot make it. going to bkk on tuesday.
jules will be in Indonesia
jules will be in Indonesia for a contract negotation…sorry guys!
keep me posted, so I can help where I can.
confirming attendants
1.
confirming attendants
1. Fazz
2. Luen
3. Alvin
4. Euss (I supposed to be in JB next week but let me reconfirm on monday)
——————————–
“Keep It Sweet & Simple”
confirm tomorrow meeting at
confirm tomorrow meeting at 11:00am at Damansara Perdana AAm office.
If anyone has concern please raise your question here, will bring them up to them. Thank you.
———————————-
neat, balance and practical
AAM affiliation
met with Nathan as planned.
present: Luen, Fazz
AAM was represented by:
1) S.N. Nanthan
Motorsports Manager, AAM
2) Ahmad Shuhaimi Abdullah
AAM Steward
Brief outline of discussion:
I’ll skip the my-kart overview.
The discussion mainly focussed on the affiliation process and implications. The following were noted…
Further to the above,
Further to the above, discussions on benefits, implications of affiliation.
Benefits: Kelab my-KART Selangor (KMS) will be able to organise national and international events. members are eligible to apply for AAM racing license through KMS.
Then we talked about event sanctioning.
AAM is currently aware of my-KART’s activities. As long as there is no prize money etc, then there is no problem with my-KART continuing to organise unsanctioned events. So we can still run as we do (luen pls correct my understanding). This is true even with AAM affiliation.
However, Nathan cautioned of the safety implications – which exposes the event organisers to public liability. Currently only RHB Assurance provides racing insurance. The premiums are based on AAM inspection / sanction. Currently, the 3rd party liability insurance per event is ~ RM1000+
Also every licensed driver will need to pay (i) RM25 pa for the comptetition license, and (ii) RM200 per event for personal insurance. Claims will not be valid unless the event is AAM sanctioned.
Sanctioned events also enables driver racing records be recognized for future reference in other category racing.
This is pretty much the main gist of the discussions. Luen, pls add any other points i missed out.
Folks – pls give feedback and any other queries.
btw, luen and i were given a copy of the AAM national competition rule book.
AAM also specifically
AAM also specifically emphasize on safety of every event. Tracks of sanctioned events will be examinated conforming to CIK/AAM every year.
Confirm that MY-kart may run unsanctioned events every month if no prizes and or money to be given away.
AAM has the right to revoke racing license of individual if he/she violated or involve participation of illegal event.
———————————-
neat, balance and practical
luen wrote:
Confirm that
[quote=luen]
Confirm that MY-kart may run unsanctioned events every month if no prizes and or money to be given away.
AAM has the right to revoke racing license of individual if he/she violated or involve participation of illegal event.
[/quote]
Question: Will it be a violation of AAM rules when a licenced driver participated in the current my-kart monthly races?
..someone mentioned to me
..someone mentioned to me that AAM will revoke their racing license if they join unsanctioned events, but not too sure lah
naza wrote:Question: Will
[quote=naza]Question: Will it be a violation of AAM rules when a licenced driver participated in the current my-kart monthly races?[/quote]
strictly yes, but according to nathan, they close one eye when it is a closed club event – no money.
As long as youre still in
As long as youre still in bolehland, they’ll close one eye for you.
__________________________________________________________________________
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/sabelt/hpclogo-1.gif[/img]
[URL=http://hpcevents.com/]hpcevents.com[/URL]
TheFazz wrote:However,
[quote=TheFazz]
However, Nathan cautioned of the safety implications – which exposes the event organisers to public liability. Currently only RHB Assurance provides racing insurance. The premiums are based on AAM inspection / sanction. Currently, the 3rd party liability insurance per event is ~ RM1000+
Also every licensed driver will need to pay (i) RM25 pa for the comptetition license, and (ii) RM200 per event for personal insurance. Claims will not be valid unless the event is AAM sanctioned.
[/quote]
I would like to summarise the cost implications, from the treasurer point of view, to ensure I understand correctly:
i) AAM Affiliation:
– RM500/year
– 2 years “probation” – during this time,. need to have senior AAM certified marshalls – is there a cost to this, and is it mandatory for all events?? Also, I understand from Luen, that they will also appraise and certify my-KART officials
– Once affiliated, we can run sanctioned or unsanctioned events.
ii) Unsanctioned event:
– Can be run as we do now.
– Anyone can join
– However, AAM licensed drivers strictly not allowed, but “close one eye” if no prize money is awarded. (Malaysia Boleh!!).
– No extra costs for AAM
– Risk -> drivers uninsured during these events…
ii) Sanctioned events:
– Only licensed drivers allowed
– Licensed drivers have to fork out RM25 (per annum) + RM 200 per event (ouch!)
– my-KART forks our RM1000 per event
– AAM marshalls -> do we need externals (at extra cost?)
So, after affiliation, we run the my-KART events “as-is”, and start to organise a limited number of sanctioned competitions, eg K1+ could be a national sanctioned event?
However, I’m still confused about the “probation period”….pls clarify.
saa73
azlan – you are correct
azlan – you are correct about the summary.
as for the probationary period, this is 2 years from the point the affiliation is first made (ie Jan 08). during this time, we can still organise sanctioned events, but the cost will have to factor in the allowances for the “senior club officials” who attend and guide our people. hope this clarifies.
can we also organise
can we also organise unsanctioned events without club officials during the probationary period, like what we do now?
saa73 wrote:can we also
[quote=saa73]can we also organise unsanctioned events without club officials during the probationary period, like what we do now?[/quote]
yes.
ii) Sanctioned events:
[quote]
ii) Sanctioned events:
– Only licensed drivers allowed
– Licensed drivers have to fork out RM25 (per annum) + RM 200 per event (ouch!)
– my-KART forks our RM1000 per event
– AAM marshalls -> do we need externals (at extra cost?)
[/quote]
Great work.
My comments for the sanctioned events are :
– all the money including driver fees GOES TO AAM….you have yet to add the money needed to rent ur machines
– what does the RM1000 cover? Track inspection fees and an “appearance fee” for a AAM steward?
– sure you will pay more/extra if u engage AAM marshalls who typically comes from KKS, AMC so my advise is better u deal directly with them….cheaper surely.
I advise u all to go UNSANCTIONED cos the the cost will all come back to the drivers and it will be too expensive to participate cos we are surely not getting better machines but paying for the “administrative” fee of some regulatory body…Also, get AAM to agree IN WRITING on terms what this UNSANCTIONED covers so we are safe…..if possible.
jules et al… first, let’s
jules et al… first, let’s get this clear: there is no rule that states that motorsports events must be sanctioned by aam.
the need to sanction such
the need to sanction such events comes from the need to protect the event organisers (eg my-kart), the sponsors and other parties involved from liability in the event of an incident. this protection comes in the form of event insurance, driver insurance etc.
given the relative infancy of motorsports insurance in the country, not many institutions want to insure motorsports events (lack of understanding, or lack of professionalism in the motorsports industry).
right now, according to aam, only rhb does so. but rhb will only provide insurance coverage if somebody tells them that all necessary precautions are in place to reduce the level of risk. and that person is aam.
hence, you can therefore
hence, you can therefore conclude that in order for sponsors to come in, and for event organisers (such as my-kart) to protect themselves from liability, we should get the event sanctioned… particularly where there is sponsorship (loosely equated to money).
imagine this scenario – we organise an event, get some big time sponsor to provide money, benefits in kind etc… the event is open to all people from everywhere – by this i mean the folks that say “i pay you money and i want to get some fun out of it”… type of people. how they behave on track, we have absolutely no control whatsoever. Should an unfortunate incident occur… who is exposed? correct: the sponsors, the event organisers etc. so by running an unsanctioned / uninsured event we are taking a colossal risk of liability.
so the simplified view that aam does not force events to be sanctioned where no money is involved – still holds true. but the rationale of doing so is as i have explained above.
so, to answer jules’
so, to answer jules’ statement that we should have events unsanctioned… yes agree. we can do this.
however, the moment we want to get sponsors, we should (we want) to get our events sanctioned. part of the sponsor revenue should be allocated to the costs of sanctioning the event.
thanks for clearing the
thanks for clearing the air….
yes, agree fully sanctioned will be when we have sponsors which is eventually where we want to be.
suggest u ask from Nathan how much it cost in FULL ( marshalls n all, track inspection fees, AAM stewards appearance, insurance etc )to run a sanction event. this will give u an idea how much to ask for, from sponsors. my estimate…RM20000 upwards for one day event.
Hopefully the fees we charge the drivers can cover the machine hire and the sponsors will take care of the AAM needs plus some cut for our club too….
Jules wrote:my
[quote=Jules]my estimate…RM20000 upwards for one day event.
Hopefully the fees we charge the drivers can cover the machine hire and the sponsors will take care of the AAM needs plus some cut for our club too….[/quote]
that is the idea. drivers pay for the machine hire etc. the sponsors for the rest. this should ensure sustainability of the series in case sponsors pull out… then we run unsponsored / unsanctioned events at the same charges to the drivers.
as for the RM20k – how do you derive this? agree to further check with nathan. but will need your help as well given your experience and technical insight.
20K? been around to hear
20K? been around to hear such numbers floating for each race…..CK were organising races before u recall?
anyhow, check w AAM for latest prices….
forget AAM lets look forward
forget AAM lets look forward on MAM.
Check their latest website. They welcomed new motorsport club to join them.
http://www.mam.org.my
sabelt wrote:forget AAM lets
[quote=sabelt]forget AAM lets look forward on MAM.
Check their latest website. They welcomed new motorsport club to join them.
http://www.mam.org.my[/quote%5D my-KART was represented by Fazz, Yus & Azlan at the MAM launch last Weds. We were even presented with a plaque by the Minister to Fazz on stage. However, this was based on the submission of application form – we have not paid up the fees yet. Some of us are meeting MAM officials to clarify the terms & conditions of affiliation today, to understand the implications on our activities. We’ll post the outcome of the meeting later.
saa73 wrote:sabelt
[quote=saa73][quote=sabelt]forget AAM lets look forward on MAM.
Check their latest website. They welcomed new motorsport club to join them.
http://www.mam.org.my[/quote%5D my-KART was represented by Fazz, Yus & Azlan at the MAM launch last Weds. We were even presented with a plaque by the Minister to Fazz on stage. However, this was based on the submission of application form – we have not paid up the fees yet. Some of us are meeting MAM officials to clarify the terms & conditions of affiliation today, to understand the implications on our activities. We’ll post the outcome of the meeting later.
[/quote]
cool. let us know the outcome… :beer: :up:
__________________________________________________________________________
[URL=http://motorsportline.com/]motorsportline.com[/URL]
Asia’s leading motorsport network
Jules wrote:thanks for
[quote=Jules]thanks for clearing the air….
yes, agree fully sanctioned will be when we have sponsors which is eventually where we want to be.
suggest u ask from Nathan how much it cost in FULL ( marshalls n all, track inspection fees, AAM stewards appearance, insurance etc )to run a sanction event. this will give u an idea how much to ask for, from sponsors. my estimate…RM20000 upwards for one day event.
Hopefully the fees we charge the drivers can cover the machine hire and the sponsors will take care of the AAM needs plus some cut for our club too….
[/quote]
IMHO sponsorship of RM20,000 per race is not realistic. If you can get that kind of money, might as well use it to buy karts instead of paying AAM!
Let’s see how MAM approaches sanctioning fees……
its all stated in their
its all stated in their website…:)